500 Words - Abi Brown - Conservative candidate for Meir Park & Sandon

A pleasant pitch for local votes. What are the qualities and beliefs of stereotypical Conservatives that you think your electors will not like and that do not apply to you?

Similar questions apply to a number of the candidates who have supplied their 500 words and make little or no mention of why they are standing on behalf of particular parties.

Love it, don't matter what party you are in Abi, on that pitch, witch I 100% belive, you get my vote, witch you can count on that as you are running in my ward.

"Iam not what Stoke on Trent considers to be a stereotypical Conservative."

Sorry Abi, but you immediately display an arrogance (possibly subconsciously) that rates with that of Shaun Bennet. If only the little people of Stoke would remove their blinkers, stop being sheep and realise what's good for them.

This arrogance, this smuggness are the traits of stereotypical Tories to me. Iam not sure if either of you do it intentionally. That makes it no less annoying, however.

Tonyjohnt, the main reason I have warmed to Abi she seems like shes a person with alot of conviction, drive and a willingness to represent and help people. It matters not what party she belongs to. Mr. Bennett, on the other hand, is 100% policiley lead, represting his party first and formost. I think Abi is diffrent, she's wanting to stand up for people. Hope to meet you at a meeting for my area Abi, good luck. She is also about the only person running in my area to express there views as yet on this site, all exsept me, and I'm not in the running, YET, and if Abi gets in and stands up, I'll run somewhere other then my own back yard next time round. With new wards, might no have to, may be room for both of us. Mind you, if the BNP are still hanging round Mier and Weston in any numbers, I'll be in there with a big pointie stick to root the buggers out, Coleman or no Coleman.

I had to have a double take there at what Warren has said. Apparantly I am a nasty individual because I am so concerned about policy!

That makes a refreshing change from all the people whinging that the politicians have no policy and only care about personality!

But of course it also shows that Warren doesn't give a toss about policy. Its all about wanting to get on the gravy boat isn't it Warren.

Warren seems to be starring in his own Bond remake at the moment- "A Single Year Term is Not Enough".
But next year the voters will receive leaflets saying "From Warren With Love".

Hey Warren... it's a secret ballot and I fully accept your right to vote as you see fit. You're sufficiently anti BNP for me to consider you a friendly.

Having had the pleasure to meet Abi while she was out leafleting, I can say she is a very nice and friendly individual with the passion and motivation to be a good councillor. I hope she gets elected and makes the people of Meir Park & Sandon proud to have her as their representative!

Shaun, did I say you were nasty, no dude, I did not, and I would not. Overall, even though we have had more then a few spats round hear,becouse your a Tory and I'm a lot more left wing then that. As a poster and commenter, I like you, and if we ever met, I get you a drink in, like most round hear, yes, even some of the BNP lads. Now, I'm backing Abi hear, as shes come on and shes on the same wave lenth as me, we both hold whats important up. I have always said, someone come and put up good idears, hell, I'll back them up. At a local level, its not about partys and what they think, its about people anf how they stand up for others. I'll quote you again from your 500 words, 'As A Conservative', 'I can not in principle', look at what Abi is saying, nothething of the sort. I'll ask you something now, if a group of voters from you ward,if you sat on the council, came to you and asked you to vote aganst something that your party wanted passing, would you do that, even if it was against your principle. Over to you.
Tonyjohnt, you'd better belive it, I hate the BNP, with alothing, nowt would please me more then chargeing in head on and seeing one of then off the council. Coleman, Brugess, or Simmons, don't matter witch one, no privet stuff, no shit slinging, what I think againts what they think.
And if I was in a Bond film, I'd be the baddie, like the Scarawhatshisface, but they would have to get me the white fluffy cat back. I rather have the books anyway.

Warren, it doesn't come accross in the black and white of the printed page but when I said you accuse me of being a nasty individual, I was not making any serious allegation against you. Thats just my way of talking. No offence.

"if a group of voters from you ward,if you sat on the council, came to you and asked you to vote aganst something that your party wanted passing, would you do that"

I'm glad you asked me that Warren. Because it gives me yet another opportunity to ram home yet again that I was against the closure of Trentham High and was very vocal about that despite my party being supportive of it. So yes I can see circumstances in which I would oppose my party.

But at the end of the day, a representative is not just there to do whatever the electorate want. They are also in the unique position of having to balance majority opinion with national or wider local interest. It is possible for a decision to be unpopular at the time but ultimately in the long term interests of the area. A good representative must not only be able to see that, but also have the guts to act upon it.

I would hope that on 99% of issues my electorate, myself and my party would in fact be in broad agreement. But I give no blank cheques to anybody, and I wouldn't expect any other responsible person to do so either.

Does that answer your question?

Shaun, thank you for the awnser you surply, witch I know is honnest. Now we seem to broudly agree on something, may I remind you of one thing, a party as no control of a seat in a council or Westminster, and you know it, the voters do. You don't represent them, and they will bugger you off. Now, to show my total independance, I'll put my cross by Abi, and feith in Abi next Thursday, and I again wish you the best of luck in the seat you wish to gain on the council.
Now, what are you drinking...lol.

Thankyou very much. Although I've been far too busy in stoke South to even start in my ward yet so...

And you're right. Its the people who will make the choice, not us arguing on here or in the campaign. All we can do is try and persuade.

Warren you amaze me. Got to hand it to you, a local tory vote and a parliamentary labour vote is an interesting combination. It would be good if it were about the individual but it is about parties. And Abi would have to be under Ross Irving for goodness sake! Shaun opposed the closure of Trentham High but wasn't allowed to put that on his leaflets. If he'd insisted the tories wouldn't even have let him try to stand for them. So the party does matter, they are in control.

Not in control of me though Nicky, round hear its vote for Abi or not at all, becouse you don't rightly know what others are fighting for, the sitting council member an't running again and Abi's the only one to explane her feeling and what she stands for. I'v said I don't give a stuff about partys, someone comes with idears, I'll back them up.

Nicky, you are only partly right. Of course the party matters. But I think you seriously confuse national parties (where member loyalty is high and the whip really is important) and local parties (where individuals are far more important and the whip only one of a number of considerations).

On my case, you are right to say that the party would not allow me to have my opposition to the Trentham High closure on my leaflets. And yes I suffered for it.
But if I'd had the money to print my own leaflets independent of the party, I would have done so and distributed them myself. I don't expect the party to spend money on leaflets opposing their policy at the time. But I never felt any sort of obligation to follow that policy when I talked to voters in the ward, or when I spoke to journalists.

Individuals DO matter. Your wonderful Terry Follows was a Conservative for a good many years-and I agree with you he is excellent. Always was, and still is. He didn't let the party get in the way of what he thought was right. Personally, I would like him back in the party. In principle he is still a Conservative and he still believes in Conservative values. So in effect Nicky, you are also joining Warren in voting Conservative aren't you?

Aren't you in fact trying to tar all memebers of a political party with the same brush? Aren't you in fact saying that it doesn't matter who the candidate is, one Conservative is much the same as another? So me and Abi and (cough, cough) Hazel are all totally interchangeable with Terry and Roger and others.

But its preposterous to suggest that. Individual candidates DO matter even in political parties.

Not exactly, what I'm saying is that, from my observations, when the political parties vote in council they nearly always follow the party whip, so in that sense one tory is the same as another and this is why I prefer independents. It's not just the tories, labour, bnp and libdems have the whip the same. But it does make a difference on the individual basis about how engaged and helpful they are within the ward. In the case of Trentham & Hanford the tories have been bad in this sense too, but that won't necessarily be the case in other wards. So I think if you have got a quality independent than that is a good person to vote for. If you have a quality party member and maybe a not very good independent it's unfortunate and you have to weigh up which is best.

I'm planing on putting my own leaflets together, getting them printed, localy, as cheep as I can then getting my mates together and hitting the streets to get them out. Plus me talking with poeple, explaining what I stand for- note talking with not to or at, with, useing what god give me, earholes, lots of them, both local and countrywide forget to listen. I agree with Shaun, local is'nt all party, in fact, if I was in Westminster representing a party, the whips would be sick for the site of me if I did'nt agree, they could kick me out of the party if they wanted, I'd just keep going as an independant. Your names on the ballat paper, its your gig, you do what you and the people who put you there want, no other bugger.

"So I think if you have got a quality independent than that is a good person to vote for. If you have a quality party member and maybe a not very good independent it's unfortunate and you have to weigh up which is best."

That is the big problem I have with what you have said on this matter. You simply cannot bring yourself to say that an excellent party member can be better than a useless independent. Your anti-party prejudice is so blinkered and illogical that it makes a nonsense of your claim to simply want the best people to be councillors.

I am not making a pro-Conservative, anti Independent point here by the way. I readily accept that some Independents ARE excellent and some Tories have been poor in the past. I am trying to put party prejudice aside and to concentrate only on the principle.

So your illogical anti-party 'ideology' puts you in a position where you accept you would have to think long and hard before not voting for an admittedly terrible Independent candidate in favour of a better candidate who just happens to be a party member. Doesn't that make you just as partisan as me even though your 'party' is called 'Independent'?

And bringing it back to the personal case, you are now in a position where you are trying desperately to justify voting for Terry Follows even though he is really a Tory and sits and votes with the Tory cabinet of Ross Irving (who you hate). And in the local elections you condemn the City Independent Group for selling out to join Ross's cabinet, but you still want to believe that a vote for your own local CIG candidate will be a vote for a particularly independent independent that perhaps will not support that coalition.

Maybe you need to be a little less partisan like me :-)

"... you're anti party prejudice is so blinkered and illogical..."

Goarn Shaun - Charm the pants and Xs off that stupid electorate!

I think I'm non-alined BNP hateing Independent leaning towards to much common sence and with mostly old Labour priceapels.

As you should know by now Nicky, I really don't care what you do with your vote-nor anyone else on the site. Despite what Tony seems to think, I don't see my role here as being to convert anybody, merely to discuss.

Neither am I asking you to justify your vote to me. However, you can't engage in debate one moment and then pull away claiming that its nothing to do with me when it gets too close to home.

You haven't really addressed my critique of your reasoning. I don't think you really can, so I won't press it any further.

You did however say that faced with an excellent party candidate and a crap independent you would merely 'weigh up' whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages of choosing the party candidate. I'm just saying that based on your best people argument, it doesn't really add up does it?

But all argument aside, I hope you get all you want from your votes on polling day, I really do.

To try and spell it out again then

"faced with an excellent party candidate and a crap independent you would merely 'weigh up' whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages of choosing the party candidate. I'm just saying that based on your best people argument, it doesn't really add up does it?"

An excellent party candidate may be competent and good at dealing with various ward issues but their party affiliation may mean they are whipped to vote in council a certain way which may be against the wishes of their ward and may be on an issue of huge importance. So it will be the voting restriction that means you have to weigh up whether that is the best person to have as councillor. A poor councillor may not perhaps have the experience or competence to get great things done, but if they are independent would be free to vote for what people want, which may matter for major issues. So what I'm saying is there is no easy answer in such a case.

Happily in Trentham we have a good candidate who is also independent, so no problem. The local election is of more interest and the vote of more importance and more satisfactory than the general election, because the latter is just registering one of a number of votes on record, seeing as it's a safe seat.